Romani Gypsies - Indian Diaspora In EuropePosted: Jan 27, 2008 Sun 09:18 pm Views: 1274 Interacts: 0 During Renaissance and The Age Of Enlightenment In Europe, kidnapping children was considered legal for most of 1500AD-1750AD. On one condition - you had to kidnap Roma Gypsy children! More than 25,000 children kidnapped. No problem. Everybody sleeps peacefully at night. Switzerland was doing this till 1973! Roughly, between 1500 to 1750, it was legal in Europe to hunt human beings. Yes! Just like hunting for deer in India, or hunting buffalo in Africa or fox-hunting in Britain. Yes! You could hunt human beings. As long as the humans you hunted were Roma Gypsies. In Europe you could be hung to death if you committed the crime of being born - between 1500AD-1750AD! Born as a Roma Gypsy! Europeans, in the their age of Enlightenment and Renaissance, (1500-1750) could just pick up human slaves - yes, own them like cattle and furniture, if you found one! As long as they were Roma Gypsies. Later you could also sell them for profit! Ship owners and captains in Europe's Golden age, (1500-1750) could arrange galley slaves for free. No wages, no salary. You just had to feed them. Use them, abuse them, flog them, kill them, drown them. You could do anything - as long as they were Roma Gypsies. 20th Century Europe Hitler's Germany killed 60 lakh Jews in various concentration camps - a broadly accepted figure. Other figures range between 50,00,000-1,00,00,000. This is today estimated at about 50% of the Jewish population. These concentration camps (first used by Spaniards in Cuba) were discovered by Allied troops as they drove back German troops. All concentration camp commanders were tried at Nuremberg trials - and sentenced. Sixty Years Later 60 years later, the Jews have still not let any of the participants and accessories forget the crime. Swiss banks, the Vatican and various Nazi officials in hiding have been hunted and prosecuted. To make up for this holocaust, guilt laden post-WW2 European and American Governments, gave the Jews a country of their own - Israel. Films have been made on these concentration camps and killings. Elie Wiesel and Menachem Begin have got Nobel Prizes for post WW2 problem management. Sharing the concentration camps with the Jews were a fringe European group - Roma Gypsies. 80% of the Romany Gypsy population - a greater percentage of Roma Gypsies died than the Jews. The world has little sympathy - and no intention of doing anything about this holocaust. One out of three in a concentration camps were Jews - the rest were Roma Gypsies and others (Jehovah's Witnesses Spanish Republicans, and ordinary criminals). Estimates of Roma Gypsy deaths in the Nazi holocaust vary and are contradictory - between 2 lakhs to 15 lakhs. A weighted median figure seems to be 5 lakhs - and better figures are difficult as Roma Gypsies were considered unfit for inclusion as human population in various census operations. In 1984, 40 years after the German defeat, Simon Wiesenthal wrote to Elie Wiesel about "the Gypsies had been murdered [in a proportion] similar to the Jews, about 80% of them in the area of the countries which were occupied by the Nazis". It is now speculated that his espousal of the Gypsy cause cost him the Nobel Prize - and was meant to show Elie Wiesel in poor light. Elie Wiesel supporters claim, allegedly, he was more interested in discrediting Elie Wiesel and less bothered about Romany Gypsy deaths. After more than 40 years to acknowledge their co-victims, on 16 September 1986, as Elie Wiesel addressed a wide range of audience in his Nobel Peace Prize speech, he stated "I confess that I feel somewhat guilty towards our Roma friends. We have not done enough to listen to your voice of anguish. We have not done enough to make other people listen to your voice of sadness. I can promise you we shall do whatever we can from now on to listen better" (Tanner 1997). Elie Wiesel confirms that he feels only somewhat guilty and will do his best to listen - just like Europe and the world does once in a while and complete indifference rest of the time. Who Are The Roma Gypsies Till 1867, Roma gypsies were part of European slave population. Their crime - a different language, a different religion and they looked different. After living in Europe for 1000 years, they were considered 'outsiders' - and did not mix much with 'native' Europeans. It is the same Roma Gypsies who have contributed to the Spanish cultural icon - Flamenco! Where did Roma Gypsies come from - they claimed they came from India. But no one was quite sure. Recent DNA mapping done has confirmed what they always claimed - they were from India. A Russian-Roma poet (born in Latvia) Leksa Manush, wrote a the Roma version of the Indian epic poem, Ramayana as "Ramajanam". What are we (Indians) doing about these "lost Indian tribe". Sweet nothing at all! Difficult Issue? What makes handling Roma Gypsy question difficult is a difficult history. Is Roma Gypsy crime a result of systematic deprivation of opportunity or a cause of their value system. Is their lack of professional accomplishment due to disinclination or due to barriers? Or even a disability issue - as claimed by some Europeans? How is it that no Indian group causes the problems that Europeans accuse Roma Gypsies of? Indians in every corner of the world have prospered - but not Roma Gypsies in Europe! If white European allegations have any truth, the truth also is that Roma Gypsy character has been perverted in Europe. Possibly, it is the European handling. The handling of the Meena tribe by Rajasthan's roal rulers is illustrative. The British colonial rulers declared the Meena tribe as a "criminal" tribe (much like Europe's treatment of Gypsies). The Meenas were among the (now) 6 crore people declared as criminals at one stroke - much like the racist administration in Europe. Or the manner in which native populations were wiped out by Anglo-Saxons in USA, Canada and Australia. In India, Rajput rulers of Rajasthan, on the other, made these " reputed criminals" as their treasury supervisors. The fame of the Meena treasury keepers spread all over India - while the British attempts at "Meena genocide" in India failed. The rest of India refused to participate in these pogroms - unlike the Europeans. Free India de-notified these tribes - and Indian law makers have refused to look at crime in a racist manner. Europeans need to do more to understand the Roma Gypsies - and provide the much deserved climate and structure for Roma Gypsies to prosper - if they care, that is. Indian Role If India wants an international role, other countries and peoples will judge us by how we treat our own people first. Other countries are unlikely to let India have an international role, if our (Indian) national role is indifferent and dubious. If Indian professionals want to play an international role, they must be in a position to take up international issues. If Indian media wants to be be on world stage, they must take up issues that others in the world are not taking up! PS - I did find one lonely Indian, Daisy Grewal who empathises with these lost Romani Gypsies Indians. Update - And then came some more. There is Late Weer Rajendra Rishi, a former officer of the Indian Foreign Service, interpreter to Jawaharlal Nehru, wrote a book on the Roma Gypsies. He set up the Indian Institute Of Roma Studies at Chandigarh. He also organized two International Romani festivals in Chandigarh (in 1976 and 1983). Last heard he was struggling to permanently house the Roma collection that he built up. In 1974, he published the Multi lingual Romani Dictionary. source : chowk
Romani People are of the Indo-Afghan Race from Northwest India. Their department was 1.400 years ago from what is todays Punjab. read carefully finally proven that gypsies are of the indo-afghan race and not dravidian race
the study compares on ydna H1a male line and tracks roma as domba but autosomally they are Close to Kashmiri Pandits and Punjabi. Kashmiri Pandits are brahmins. ydna is only very small part of genes. it is the fathers fathers fathers line. autosomal is whole Genome. Romas are genetically closest to Kashmiri Pandits and Punjabi. their ydna is H1a not surprising it Clusters with Dalits since High Castes have most of the time R1a but not all. There is even H1a a Little bit in Iran. They are classified as Indo-Afghan Race like Sikhs and Punjabis. Also they look like Northwest Indians like Punjabis not like Tamils etc. I think caste is just the occupation not race. The ones who do dirty Jobs are low castes. It shouldnt be determined by birth. Romas are not prostitutes they arrange marriages even, i cant post links or i would. For them it is important that the woman is obedient and clean and virgin. Also they are not nomads, most of them were settled according to the earliest Ottoman tax Registers only very few were itinerant. they had their traditional occupations like blacksmiths, musicians, shoemakers etc. they were not criminals. Source: European Roma descended from India - Page 2
